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[icon] Today on the bus I witnessed a couple of thugs (well one out of the… - The Label vs. The Reality
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Time:05:46 pm
Current Mood:angryangry
Today on the bus I witnessed a couple of thugs (well one out of the two who were there) no older than 17 years old grab this asian girl's ipod just before they got off the bus. I was sitting less than 5 feet away and the whole thing happened so fast I hardly knew what was happening before they were gone. It was one of those double buses and the driver had started driving again before the girl could get up to the front to tell the driver what went down. I was holding on to my purse tightly, like I always do, thankfully. But the whole thing makes me so embarassed to be black, and I am thankful every morning that I am light skinned and look mixed with latin or Asian and some other things too. I feel so bad because that asian girl and so many others are going to find it almost impossible to get over their stereotypes of black people because of what happened to her. We always see our people on the news shooting, killing fighting and stealing, and we glorify it in our music videos and think that drug dealers are entrepeneurs (sp, I know!). I am scared of most of my own people now. I don't want to associate with them or be around them. situations like the one I saw today makes me even worse. I know this sounds a little harsh but it is how I feel. Every time I see one of them coming down the same street I am with their shirts and pants 20 sizes too big and are down so low that if they bend over I experience a full moon, I just want to cross to the other side, it's gotten that bad for me.

hl
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nighstar
Link:(Link)
Time:2006-10-01 02:50 am (UTC)
:\ i know how you feel.... minus the light skinned part.

it's very troubling to feel that way about others of your own ethnicity.
(Reply) (Thread)


amazonelf78
Link:(Link)
Time:2006-10-01 02:52 am (UTC)
for every person (regardless of race, religion, etc.) that acts the way those bpys did, there are several decenr, good folks out there. prove to the world that not all black people are thugs!
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(Deleted comment)

girly123
Link:(Link)
Time:2006-10-01 05:55 am (UTC)
Agreed. If a white person had said any of that, they would have been called racist.
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)

_operator_
Link:(Link)
Time:2006-10-01 06:47 am (UTC)
She is racist. But then again, so is everyone else in the world.
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hip_hop_korner
Link:(Link)
Time:2006-10-01 02:46 pm (UTC)
I completely agree.

Her self-hatred is nauseating.
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i_nightblade
Link:(Link)
Time:2006-10-01 04:04 pm (UTC)
That's what I was about to say.
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)


phychugirl
Link:(Link)
Time:2006-10-01 05:12 am (UTC)
Wow, way to not only stereotype your own race, but yourself.
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kyooverse
Link:(Link)
Time:2006-10-01 06:08 am (UTC)
Yes, it is a horrible thing to watch someone get mugged. However, are you aware of how you racialized this event in such a manner that displays, not how you feel about other B/black people, but how you feel about yourself?

In your first sentence, you use the word "thug" in order to inform us that not only were these males, but they were black -- as a racial term, (later younng) and that you perceived them as being from a lower socio-economic tier. In order to identify him as such, you have to set him/them up in opposition to yourself -- which you do later when you identify yourself. You say, "I am light skinned and look mixed with latin or Asian and some other things too."

In identifying yourself this way, I think you reveal my first hypothesis, that the way in which you have negatively racialized the event reflects on you. It seems that you feel negatively about being black -- as a racial identity or an ethnic identity. What these "thugs" did was notwithstanding -- you would have felt that way no matter what. In this event, they became a kind of object-fixation of your internal process. Also, identifying the girl as "Asian" was to point towards what you feel make you different from them... that you like Asian people as if their taking her iPod was about her being Asian instead of her having an iPod.

That is not to say being afraid of other B/black people doesn't happen... it does. I am afraid of some B/black people and not all of them code the way you specify. However, I am afraid of some white people, some Asian people -- indeed, I am sometimes afraid of other people.

However, I don't think negatively about people based on what they look like or their external markers.

Was there ever a time when you were not afraid of "your own people"? When did you start being afraid of your own people?

I am dreadfully sorry it has become this bad for you.
(Reply) (Thread)

_operator_
Link:(Link)
Time:2006-10-01 07:02 am (UTC)
she called him a thug because he is one, he stole an ipod. a thug is just that - someone who steals. it seems to me that you're the one associating "thug" with black guys.

Second, i disagree that she would still have felt the way she did if they hadn't stole the ipod. if they were extremely polite and kind, she would probably have felt just the opposite. she would feel good that there were blacks who aren't reinforcing the negative stereotypes.

also, it is obvious that she likes asians more than she does blacks. however, i assume she would feel pretty much the same way if the person who got their ipod stolen was of any other race. the fact that a black guy stole the ipod is the primary causation of her feelings.

(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)


kyooverse
Link:(Link)
Time:2006-10-01 07:26 am (UTC)
*raises an eyebrow*

A thug is not someone who steals something. A thug is someone who "roughs up" people -- generally for kicks. They are "muscle" and they bully people. It sounds to me that the boys snatched the iPod. They didn't threaten or engage. Therefore, the word is not being used in its proper, i.e. given definition -- it is being used in a different manner. The manner in which it is used suggest "thug" here is being taken from "rap videos" or other forms of African-American culture that is denigrated by B/black and white people alike.

Although it would "seem" that way to you, sadly, does not make it so. I apologize I am not able to create the world over in your fevered imagination.

Secondly, disagree all you like, however, my assertion is supported here:

We always see our people on the news shooting, killing fighting and stealing, and we glorify it in our music videos and think that drug dealers are entrepeneurs (sp, I know!). I am scared of most of my own people now. I don't want to associate with them or be around them. situations like the one I saw today makes me even worse.

Where she says, "situations like the one I saw today makes me even worse" which means she knows she had the mindset prior to this event and the event deepened the extent of it. She would not feel good about B/black people because she never "sees" or experience -- not stereotypes because that's ignorant -- but good B/black people and therefore cannot identify herself as one and cannot see, or does not see, them first.

The causation of her feelings has nothing to do with the event at all. The event is not primary about this post nor is it the real point of it. The point is that she feels afraid of other B/black people, irrationally, and seems to want to understand why that is.

And that assertion is supported here, "Every time I see one of them coming down the same street I am..., I just want to cross to the other side, it's gotten that bad for me.
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_operator_
Link:(Link)
Time:2006-10-01 07:54 am (UTC)
um, well i checked again and thug still means thief:
Dictionary.com Unabridged
thug 

–noun 1. a cruel or vicious ruffian, robber, or murderer.
2. (sometimes initial capital letter) one of a former group of professional robbers and murderers in India who strangled their victims.


where i think you're wrong is that you believe her feelings towards black people are irrational. i think they are rational. humans learn and generalize to their advantage. when you see that statistically black people are more likely than some other racial groups to steal, kill, fight, or use drugs, then how is it not logical and rational to be more cautious around black people or not like them as a whole as much as other races. if you knew, saw, or experienced that orange pencils are more likely to spontaneously explode and kill you, would you not avoid and dislike orange pencils and use other pencils?


(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)


kyooverse
Link:(Link)
Time:2006-10-01 08:06 am (UTC)
http://www.webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?sourceid=Mozilla-search&va=Thug

Etymology: Hindi & Urdu thag, literally, thief
: a brutal ruffian or assassin : GANGSTER, TOUGH

Unless you speak Hindi or Urdu, my definition is correct.

Her feelings are irrational and predictable, too. She is not generalizing her experiences. In her post, she cites television/media as being a huge contributor for the reason why she feels the way she does.

And it is irrational to not like a group of people based on their skin color. We call those people bigots or racists or klansmen.The reason why we do so is because to create a position for an entire group of people based on limited resources or rationale is considered to be quite low-minded and not egalitarian at all. It is backwards.

As for your stupid analogy: No. Because the culprit would be pencils, not orange.

That was really stupid.
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)

_operator_
Link:(Link)
Time:2006-10-01 08:32 am (UTC)
my analogy wasn't stupid, your face is stupid. but seriously, would you mind discussing this without throwing out insults? i don't think you're getting the point i was trying to make about human nature.

thug also means a person who steals in english. i can't believe you're trying to tell me it doesn't. go ask the very next person you meet if thug doesn't mean someone who steals. anyways, back to the original point: she called him a thug cuz he stole an ipod. if the person where albino, he'd still be a thug cuz he stole shit. you're the one associating thug with being black.

watching television is an experience. she was alive and conscious wasn't she? she observed and heard stuff from the tv? that's an experience...

she doesn't dislike people black people cuz their skin is black, she dislikes black people because a lot of them act criminally and reinforce the negative stereotype.

And again, my analogy kicks ass. Pencils aren't the culprit because not all pencils would explode and kill people. Only the orange ones do.
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kyooverse
Link:(Link)
Time:2006-10-01 08:34 am (UTC)
*shakes head*

My face is stupid so I realize when I am talking to someone clearly cracked.
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_operator_
Subject:a little sand in the vagina?
Link:(Link)
Time:2006-10-01 08:49 am (UTC)
your face is cracked.

dude, lighten up.
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)

_operator_
Link:(Link)
Time:2006-10-01 07:56 am (UTC)
and if you yourself were an exploding orange pencil, wouldn't you wish you were a different colored pencil that people knew was less likely to explode and kill them?
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)


nighstar
Link:(Link)
Time:2006-10-02 08:05 am (UTC)
she called him a thug because he is one, he stole an ipod. a thug is just that - someone who steals. it seems to me that you're the one associating "thug" with black guys.

Second, i disagree that she would still have felt the way she did if they hadn't stole the ipod. if they were extremely polite and kind, she would probably have felt just the opposite. she would feel good that there were blacks who aren't reinforcing the negative stereotypes.


agreed. i don't see how 'thug' automatically equates to 'black'.

and besides, it's just a post that was probably written on a whim. there's no need to be overly analytical over it. take it however you want, the author knows what she ment by it.
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)

_operator_
Link:(Link)
Time:2006-10-01 07:39 am (UTC)
i feel ya. i live in orange, ca and there are very few other blacks in the neighborhood, and yet still whenever someone is on the street homeless, being loud/obnoxious, or whatnot, most of the time it's a black person. it's like wtf, i rarely see black people here and when i do they're usually disgraceful. it makes me feel ashamed and i hate that they are reinforcing negative stereotypes. on the other hand, i absolutely love to see successful and respectable black folk.

Also, in my high school i was one of 10 blacks in a sizable public school (2 more came in later my senior year) and except for 2, all of them were constantly obnoxious, rude, loud, and straight up ghetto. i never had any other black kid in my ap or honor classes (4 of them were in my grade). the only time i had class with some black kids was PE and when i volunteered after school to help tutor kids that couldn't get basic algebra. sadly there were 4 of them at the tutoring sessions. 2 of them were seniors with me, one had flunked algebra once, the other 3 times. A third of the blacks at the school couldn't pass a basic algebra class. It was sad, I hated it. And when we graduated, 3 of the black kids went to the local JC, and one just went straight to working full-time.

Now, while everyone is racist and stereotypes/generalizes to some degree, i do think it's sad though that your hate/fear/stereotyping of blacks is to such the degree that it is. just keep in mind that not all blacks follow suit of the negative stereotypes - many don't. i think you need to find said people. it wasn't until i got to my college that i actually met and befriended black people that were extremely awesome, intelligent, and respectable... my father died when i was young and there weren't any blacks in my neighborhood. when you have more black people in your life that you can look up to, respect, and like you won't feel as bad about being black.

(Reply) (Thread)


bunnyfears
Link:(Link)
Time:2006-10-01 05:15 pm (UTC)
forget everyone else who tried to make you out as the bad person in this thread. I've been thinking similar things since I was 11 years old. I'm 27 now. I have no good news for you except to say that if you work to live your life as your own as compared to a person who feels the dogma of a race then you'll come out a lot better in the end. Live your life as "insert your name here" not Black "insert your name here". We define our ownselves.
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i_nightblade
Link:(Link)
Time:2006-10-01 07:16 pm (UTC)
I guess as a darker-skinned brother, my grudge with her was that she seems to want to deny her heritage. That's the thing that's disgraceful for me, especially in this day and age. (Before you give me the whole "passing" argument. It was horrible that it had to be done back then, too, but then there was the entire Jim Crow thing, which makes it more understandable.)

She can certainly live her life independent of her racial identity, but to go on a community - especially one that caters to Blacks - and say, "oh my god black people are gross I'm glad I was born white-looking" is highly offensive, to say the least.

It's not so much that she was the bad person in the situation - no one is going to argue that her attitude caused the other woman to have her iPod stolen. However, she shouldn't have come here and written a post better suited to Stormfront that oreos.
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)

pibagent
Link:(Link)
Time:2006-10-01 06:38 pm (UTC)
I was like that once...........it sucked, so I changed gears.

Although I will agree that our condition as a community is deplorable and that we should define ourselves not by race but by who we are, the whole denying your ethnic identity is going a bit too far.

Kudos for getting the community to respond, I think we were overdue for a post like this (seriously its been a month since my last community post and there have only been like 2 or 3 in total since then).
(Reply) (Thread)


harukalioncourt
Link:(Link)
Time:2006-10-01 09:57 pm (UTC)
I'm really sorry if I offended anyone with what I said, and even though I do not feel that way all the time, yesterday I felt like this and there are other times that I do as well. Besides at that time I was the only other black person in that part of the bus and I almost wanted to apologise to the girl for them. I would hate it for other people to see me that way! It's almost impossible for me to get on well with the majority of blacks around where I am and I do not want to be associated with the ones around here whatsoever. Why should I want to be? I am grateful for ANYTHING (skin color, sex, whatever else) that will keep others from associating and stereotyping me along with them. I know that other races have a tendency to stereotype all blacks (and other races too, like saying that all asians must be smart, etc.) into one group and I don't want to have anything to do with that. And no, I did not care if the victim was asian or not. I would have felt the same way if they had stolen any other person's ipod, even a black person's. It makes me so sad because I don't see or hear any other races (white, asian, latino, etc) doing that kind of thing nearly as often as blacks seem to (even though it sometimes happens), and when I actually witness black people living up to the stereotypes of COURSE I get embarassed because I know we are capable of so much more! Maybe I need to take some time out to discover myself and my own identity but these were my honest feelings, even though I was livid at the time I wrote that post.

hl
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(Deleted comment)

harukalioncourt
Link:(Link)
Time:2006-10-02 02:20 am (UTC)
If this post offends too many people, you're more than welcome to delete it. This is most just angrily ranting anyway. Sorry. I will just lurk from now on.

hl
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)


the_zedster
Link:(Link)
Time:2006-10-02 02:35 am (UTC)
I feel so bad because that asian girl and so many others are going to find it almost impossible to get over their stereotypes of black people because of what happened to her.

I feel so bad because you and so many others are going to find it almost impossible to get over your stereotypes of Black people because of what happened. You seem to be conveniently unaware of or willing to ignore the numerous Blacks (artists, activists, teachers, politicians, etc.) who do not fit these negative stereotypes and in fact promote a healthy, growing Black community. These people are thankful for who they are, not ashamed to look dark skinned, and do not aspire to be Latin@ or Asian or some other race

I am scared of most of my own people now. I don't want to associate with them or be around them. situations like the one I saw today makes me even worse. I know this sounds a little harsh but it is how I feel.

No, this doesn't sound harsh, just ignorant. When you see a news report of a white man who rapes and kills an 11 year old girl, do you think, "I'm thankful that I am darker-skinned and look like I'm not white"? Or perhaps when you hear about a white male who holds six high school girls hostage, sexually assaults and shoots one dead, do you feel scared of most white people? Do you not want to associate with them or be around them? Do situations like these make you even worse? No? Then maybe you are just racist against Black people.

But you're Black, you say? Don't worry, you've just internalized what is called Black hatred, a ubiquitous mentality that had been a part of American society since the first slaves were brought to this land. It works to ensure people of ALL races do the following:
1) Assume all blacks are criminals or other negative stereotypes.
2) Not question these stereotypes.
3) Believe that if two people of two different races (Black and white) were to commit similar crimes, the black person will be seen as a perfect example of what's bad with hir race, whereas the white person is just someone who did something wrong, and does not represent hir entire race.

Every time I see one of them coming down the same street I am with their shirts and pants 20 sizes too big and are down so low that if they bend over I experience a full moon, I just want to cross to the other side, it's gotten that bad for me.

Every time I see ignorant, racist crap spewn out, peppered with bits of I'm-sorry-but-that's-just-the-way-I-feel BS, and that person expects others to sympathize and nod in agreement, I just want to smack them in the head with a thick book of Black social thought, it's gotten that bad for me. It is this kind of disgusting behavior that perpetuates hate and intolerance, increases police surveillance and targeting, and ensures that there are more Black men thrown in jail than going to college and one out of three young Black men is either locked up, on probation, or on parole. If you think the mess you just said sounds harsh, think again.
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nighstar
Link:(Link)
Time:2006-10-02 08:21 am (UTC)
lol... utterly blown out of proportion, in my humble opinion.

no where did she "assume all blacks are criminals", nor demonstrate that she does "not question these stereotypes" along with 90% of the rest of what you said.

it was simply a situation under certian circumstances that caused her to feel the way she did.
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)


the_zedster
Link:(Link)
Time:2006-10-02 09:25 am (UTC)
Looks like you simply didn't read what this poster said. Let me copy and paste it for your ease:
Situations [sic] like the one I saw today makes me even worse. I know this sounds a little harsh but it is how I feel. (bold mine).

It was a situation that triggered all the OP's deep-seeded fear/hatred/prejudice of blacks. It was not a "certian" [sic] circumstance that made her decide she does not like/trust/want to be associated with black people. It's been going on longer. The "makes me even worse" is a direct reference to that.

I am scared of most of my own people now. I don't want to associate with them or be around them.

Okay, the poster did not say "100% of blacks are criminals," but zhe did say "I am scared of most of my people." If zhe wasn't assuming most blacks are criminals, then zhe has nothing to worry about, right? From what zhe has written in this ignorant vignette of racism, zhe has not demonstrated zhe questions these stereotypes. In fact, zhe said zhe believes them.

Please read the racist rubbish you're trying to back up before you start telling me what it doesn't say.
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)


nighstar
Link:(Link)
Time:2006-10-02 03:33 pm (UTC)
It was not a "certian" [sic] circumstance that made her decide she does not like/trust/want to be associated with black people. It's been going on longer. The "makes me even worse" is a direct reference to that.

by this, i ment it was a certain situation that made her react/post the way she did to this situation. whether or not she reacts in a similar manner to all or even most other situations involving black people is a different matter that we can't be sure of.

If zhe wasn't assuming most blacks are criminals, then zhe has nothing to worry about, right?

i agree that she wouldn't have as much to worry about if not for atleast some level of belief in the other stereotypes, but not necessarily that she assumes most to be criminals.

zhe has not demonstrated zhe questions these stereotypes. In fact, zhe said zhe believes them.

just because one doesn't demonstrate every aspect or degree of their feelings towards something in a post doesn't mean one should default to believing the worst of what they did not demonstrate.

i said "90% of the rest of what you said" because you made a lot more (strong) accusations than these few.
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)


kyooverse
Subject:IAWTC
Link:(Link)
Time:2006-10-12 04:36 pm (UTC)
Good post.
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)


cantseemtolove
Link:(Link)
Time:2006-10-03 03:09 am (UTC)
when i first read this i wanted to comment but i was at a lost for words.
i can understand why she feels the way she dos because when i was younger i admit i was "ashamed" of being black. but as i got older and exposed myself to other black people i saw that not all of the black community are the same. just like the white community,asian,latino,etc.

but still made me sad to read all the self hatred she holds. but at least shes able to be honest about it,and if she doesnt address the fact that she does have those issues then she cant change what she doesnt know.

(Reply) (Thread)


pushinit
Subject:Not to Attack You.
Link:(Link)
Time:2006-10-05 01:24 am (UTC)
Not to offend you but I thought this post was a joke when I first read it.
Especially @

"I was holding on to my purse tightly, like I always do, thankfully. But the whole thing makes me so embarassed to be black, and I am thankful every morning that I am light skinned and look mixed with latin or Asian and some other things too"

I just can't believe anyone would ever write such a preposterous thing. I know you wrote it out of anger but I'd like to understand the reasoning behind this resentment...feel free to respond in my journal : )

(Reply) (Thread)


justmyself_87
Link:(Link)
Time:2006-10-22 01:03 am (UTC)
Honestly this post alone has made me cringe and leave this community.

"I was holding on to my purse tightly, like I always do, thankfully. But the whole thing makes me so embarassed to be black, and I am thankful every morning that I am light skinned and look mixed with latin or Asian and some other things too"

I know you are only ones of hundreds of people on here but whenever I check this page this is usually something similar to the posts I see.

cya and HL I seriously hope you find some solace with yourself and others of our race.
(Reply) (Thread)


anyaatl
Link:(Link)
Time:2006-10-25 06:52 pm (UTC)
I rarely comment in this journal, but today I felt compelled to.

I read the post several times to make sure I was not misreading and misconstruing what the original post was saying.

The self-hatred the poster made because she is black, and the pride and thankfulness she felt from having a light skin tone was disheartening, and makes me wonder if we are ever going to progress beyond this outdated notion that lighter is better. I am the mother of a bi-racial daughter, who happens to have large brown curls, blue eyes, and her fathers colouring. I would hate for my duaghter to grow up thinking she can somehow get a "Get out of black heritage" free card, based on how she looks, and have the notion that all black people are like they are portrayed in the media. I would hate for her to look in a mirror or at another person darker hued than her, and have her thank her lucky stars for her Caucasion features.

I am fortunate to have come from an environment of successful African- American people. My father is an attorney, and all of his siblings graduated from college. I guess I am one of the lucky ones who learned early that the media often portrays black people as dangerous and ignorant in order to encourage separation and hatred amongst the races and classes. I'm 34, a little older than most of you, but instead of this internal hatred and racial awareness issue getting better, it seems to not be changing one bit. This makes me sad. It also makes me realize that I will have to work very hard to teach my daughter how to ignore the stereotypes and negative messgaes, and that I will have my work cut out for me.
(Reply) (Thread)


carmageek
Subject:Damn.
Link:(Link)
Time:2006-11-12 10:19 pm (UTC)
Uh... so, a lot has been said already, cuz I'm always late. I guess just offer my two cents anyway and say, there are idiots of every race/creed/ethnicity. Don't be embarrassed to be black, even in a situation like that, but rather take that as an opportunity(sp?) to prove that not all black people are thieves, but good, honest citizens that can accomplish things and be a positive influence. My point is, you didn't steal anything, so you don't have anything to be embarrassed about. There's no need to feel responsible for those two guys, and that certainly should not affect your own image of black people. It doesn't help those who want to be positive when people of their own race are ashamed of them, because of stereotypes that do not apply to them.
(Reply) (Thread)

emergentism
Link:(Link)
Time:2006-12-13 11:30 pm (UTC)
I can see how you seeing such an act would make you feel so infuriated. I see it a lot in the area I live in, and unfortunately most of such crimes here are being committed by African American males.

But you should never, ever, be ashamed of the color of your skin. You share nothing in common with them other than you were riding the same bus.

If anything, you should be ashamed that THEY are black. They are just exacerbating the negative black stereotype. You should be proud of yourself that you are a good enough person not to commit such an act. But always be proud of who you are, despite the acts of others.

There are many times that i've walked through a parking-lot between cars and hear the clicks of people locking their car doors before I walk by. Not a good feeling, but I know I have no such intent on hurting anybody, and that is sometimes good enough for me.
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[icon] Today on the bus I witnessed a couple of thugs (well one out of the… - The Label vs. The Reality
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